Feedback Thread | Unit Cost Rebalancing #2

Discussion in 'Future Content' started by gumi Elie, Mar 7, 2016.

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  1. gumi Elie

    gumi Elie English Community Manager Staff Member

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    Welcome to this official Feedback thread for Unit Cost Rebalancing!​

    What is this about?
    In threads like this one, we encourage you to discuss Cost changes for 10 Units we have picked. These changes might already be live in the game, or might be current plans for a future update.​

    How can I help?
    Our team will be looking at feedback concerning the impact these changes have, what should be raised or lowered, if it all seems logical within the game's meta, etc... If you are knowledgeable about specific characters mentioned below, please tell us if you agree with our approach or if it should be modified and why.​

    Note: We kindly ask you to stay on topic. This thread is not about whether Cost changes are necessary or not. You can read more about why Rebalancing is happening here: LINK

    • Unit Cost Rebalancing #2 •

    For existing Units - These are our current plans for the following Units:

    7-Star Evolutions

    Heinrich | Cost 44 (+2, up from 42)
    Lance | Cost 36 (-2, down from 38)
    Eze | Cost 36 (-2, down from 38)
    Vargas | Cost 36 (-2, down from 38)
    Zerafalgar | Cost 37 (-3, down from 40)
    Magnazorda | Cost 37 (-3, down from 40)​

    For upcoming Units - These are our current plans for the following Units, to be active when they are released:

    7-Star Evolutions

    Reis | Cost 42 (+2, up from 40)
    Edea | Cost 41 (+1, up from 40)
    Kagura | Cost 40 (Remains the same)
    NemethGear | Cost 40 (Remains the same)
    Feel free to openly discuss our planned changes (or lack thereof) for any of these 10 Units.
    Thank you for participating in our Rebalancing discussions!
    - The Brave Frontier RPG Team​
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  2. Copper

    Copper [8] Elite

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    I guess the mere existence of Magena in the game incredibly raised the value of 7 stars mitigators, since normal mitigation-LS mitigation-elemental mitigation DO stack. Raising the cost of more supportive 7 stars mitigators should discourage people from going full turtle mode and cheese through content with ease. Or at least force them to level up the account A LOT before doing so. Again, I'm fine with the adjustments, expecially the buffs on the starter units. I'm also fine with Heinrich being nerfed, even tho I play him a lot: he's the best transferer in the game and a supreme arena unit, +2 on his cost is a good tradeoff for having such a powerful unit.

    Also, I don't get why everyone is so salty about Gumi balancing Alim units. I say it here again: Alim units in the global server live in a different unit ecosystem, so they NEED to be balanced around EU content/exclusives. Still, the power of ALL units is untouched: if you really mind keep using them in every squad, just level up your account and stop complaining.
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  3. kami108

    kami108 [8] Elite

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    I can somewhat understand all of their changes, except for Edea.
  4. kami108

    kami108 [8] Elite

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    Bye man!
    P.S. The tunnelvision is great with this one:
    This implies that changes CAN be made if your argument is solid.
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  5. rokki82

    rokki82 [10] Legend

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    wrong thread ^^

    place holder
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2016
  6. Soulvince ᵒᴥᵒ

    Soulvince ᵒᴥᵒ [10] Legend

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    The nice thing is that I farmed for monthes to prepare myself having a full 7* team.
    Now I have to farm more again to have a 7* team...

    If u, gumi, thinks that farming is funny, it is not.

    Have a good day, with ur changes you are just killing the game. Only HL players are free to play as they want, but if I can't play as I want, I don't see why I should stay here...
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  7. kami108

    kami108 [8] Elite

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    Well... farming Merit point quests like Christmas IS fun though!

    And c'mon these balance changes are gonna take a long time but it will work out!
    Even though they can't take back the Avalon units who broke the game, rebalancing is a creative way of solving it and I'm sure Gumi is gonna make it work. EU was never meant to go the same direction as BFGL or BFJP, they clearly want to go their own way hence the mirror quests for example.

    Once they are able to make Raid work and have figured out the rebalancing and planning for future releases (concerning cost limits for new exclusive content and perhaps regular content as well) you'll see content flying at you from left and right in no time!

    So in your case taking a break might not be too bad, I don't play GL or JP but I'm sure there's enough content there to keep you at bay while Gumi fixes EU's game balance.
  8. kami108

    kami108 [8] Elite

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    There is! But not for now I guess, this rebalancing is gonna take some time patiencccccccee:p
  9. Ray915

    Ray915 [8] Elite

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    So now for an official constructive comment:

    I don't really care about the buffs we get, because almost no one uses those units. I understand that's why they'll have less cost but in this way doing this is pointless in my opinion...
    Edea: Raising her cost by one is weird don't you think? But I guess it's better than raised by 6...
    Heindrich: This is the part where I'm just NOT okay with, Heinrich is like Rize, but less powerful. He might have more buffs but his attack animation makes his attacks less focused on a short period. So if your goal is to make huge damage: Rize > Heinrich.
  10. Khazzak

    Khazzak [9] Master

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    ofcourse Avant,Cancer,Virgo, Llewxam aquarius and.....Just look into signature.. gets updated each Batch.
    @gumi Elie it's a good idea to increase the cost, in my opinion each avalon unit should have a cost of 50. Amen.

    Edit: Reasoning

    Merlin: insane BC fill, Healer, Status ailments remover, practically put Grail + lexida on him and your team has ALWAYS all SBB's ready.

    Arthur: Outclasses any Dmg-related Leaders by far, and his SBB is unique: infinite AOE SBB, with capcrit buff + a chance to double any BB/SBB/UBB (even himself on the turn he casts it )

    Viviane: her UBB is reason enough with those insane 1 turn Kill capabilities

    Percieval: I mean really? UBB is a freaking Buff remover, which nullifies any difficulty in to come trials where you get punishment for pushing some thresholds by simply removing them together with everything else. On top of that he's an insane allrounder with buffs

    Mordred: okay leave him be, he's nothing that special

    Morgana: just the same.

    i put it to the test: with a few of them you can actually rush through all trials in less than 12 minits...yeah right...
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2016
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  11. Arioch

    Arioch [10] Legend

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    I think the adjustments for these 10 units are ok. Maybe it's weird increasing Edea only by 1 when Elimo has been increaaes by 6. Also, I think Heinrich could go to 45 or 46. He is a beast in nuke teams, a beast in arena, and also extremely good on trials and the upcoming raids.
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  12. Soulvince ᵒᴥᵒ

    Soulvince ᵒᴥᵒ [10] Legend

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    Rebalancing costs is bad imo : with that, u don't solve real problems bout OP exclusives : Magena and Arthur mostly. The fact is that HL players can still play em without any problem. It only impacts middle players... We all know that those units are OP, but instead doing a real rework of these units, gumi EU is only changing costs, even for "normal units", which were designed as balanced with their costs. This rebalancing is not fair for everyone.

    In global, they Nerfed Hardaron and Tridon 2/3 times because they were OP. If they were not, gumi US would have been broken with those 2 units. Imo, gumi EU should solve the problem at it's roots, nerf Magena and Arthur as they would and stop with this bu*****t of changing costs... cmon; the 2 dragons 7* got buffed with their costs, but they still sucks and nobody will play'em with those changes...
  13. KosaOstra

    KosaOstra [8] Elite

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    Agree 100%. If we take Elimo as a reference, 7* Edea could easily be 44. Also, I'd say Reis "deserves" 44 (and i'd put Art at 50, if you get around to fixing his buff's timing - sorry if i got a bit off topic, but with Reis Arthur comes to mind immediately).
    More general feedback - to me at least the changes feel too slow - even when Edea 7* gets released, and if i'll get lucky and get Reis or the Gundam thing, the changes won't influence my experience with BF RPG. I understand that you need to tread lightly here, but i would definitely appreciate if you guys got more daring.
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  14. kami108

    kami108 [8] Elite

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    I guess you don't really solve the power gap here, but Gumi realizes that just nerfing the units isn't going to help them much either for whatever reason (since they clearly feel that rebalancing the entire game is a better solution than a simple nerf here and there). Besides, a lot of players are gonna be salty either way. I think Gumi is trying to solve future problems like OP units with these rebalances and at the same time trying to bring back the challenge while introducing cost limits AND at the same time bringing unique innovation to the EU servers that separates them from the other servers. This means even HL players will suffer from having limited cost and not only the LL players.
    I hope I made my point (if not then don't blame me, I'm bad with words) don't hate me
  15. Eimilio ᵒᴥᵒ

    Eimilio ᵒᴥᵒ True Master of Slack

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    I don't understand why people want Edea to be 44 when Elimo is 46 and everyone is ♥♥♥♥ing joking around her high cost.
    If Edea was at 44 cost, everyone will complain really hard.
    Don't forget that new player had the opportunity to get her, a mitigator with ES restriction (for new player) is still great.
    Edea is only 25% miti as 6*, the impact of her 7* is of course good because she went from bad unit to good mitigator.
    Don't take Elimo's cost as reference it's a joke.
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  16. KosaOstra

    KosaOstra [8] Elite

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    Elimo's new cost is not a joke, the whole "cost" feature is a joke now. What Gumi EU tries to do is a step in a right direction. You are not supposed tohave a team with all the op units - that team is the real joke.
    As for people complaining - "people" are in ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ mode right now, only thing we hear is loud minority i believe. I personally still believe they are doing the right thing.
  17. Gholayat

    Gholayat Warden Moderator

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    Khazzak, I like this post. The only thing Im not sure about is fi I agree with Perceval. I brought Perceval with me against Afla Dillith because I heard he keeps buffing himself every x Thresholds. But I used Perceval UBB two times, and it seems Afla just rebuffs himself shortly after you strip him of his buffs. If all upcoming content is like this, buff removable but rebuffing itself not too long after, then Perceval, though still being really strong, is a lot less OP as people think he is right now.

    I agree about Elimo changes, but I am pretty confident that her cost increase will get changed at some point. Peoples ragefaces right now are just 100% tiltmode and most arguments are not even arguments but just pure salt.
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  18. Jagaya

    Jagaya [10] Legend

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    Nerfing Magena and Arthur? You don't think, this would provoke even more hatred? Well it would.
    Gumi is not saying, those units are OP, but extremely good. Therefore only high-level summoners should be able to use them in a full 7* team.
    Ofcourse this does not affect high-level summoners. But kinda like the guy who said level-farming is boring: the level offers maxEnergy and maxCost. It somewhat represents the "power" of the summoner. Higher level, stronger units. Those units are strong, so they should be harder to use.
    Leveling might be the more boring part of the game, but the only solution would be, to remove it alltogether in order to not bother mid-lvl players eith the Cost of certain units O.o

    I have neither Arthur nor Magena, but as far as I see them, they are not so op, that they need a nerf. They don't have those gamebraking new mechanics, that allow them to singlehandedly change the game like those global put out.
    I don't know why Gumi changed the cost of non-exclusive units as well. But I assume they made some sort of formular and this spit out the numbers. This might be focused on units people are acutelly using at will, rather than thanks to limited cost.
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  19. Khazzak

    Khazzak [9] Master

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    ofcourse Avant,Cancer,Virgo, Llewxam aquarius and.....Just look into signature.. gets updated each Batch.
    well, i still think it's OP to be able to remove all buffs from a Trialunit. Afla Dilith seemed much weaker after Percievals UBB at his last buffstage. So i don't really thinks he rebuffs himself, well, we gotta see what happens in the future, but currently percieval is broken just because of his UBB.
  20. Zettavk

    Zettavk [2] Amateur

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    I'm not a EU player but a Global player, I think Alim's cost of units were put there for a reason, to balance them. Like is said in the original Balance post, I agree limiting the cost but only on EU-exclusive content (like is seen in GQ in general, extreme example being Seria's GQ). The problem with Alim's units exist because EU-exclusive were made (the powerful ones).
    Thus like Kazzzak has said, inscreasing the cost on the powerful (those that are too powerful on their current cost/whatever) EU units, making their cost to reflect their strength.

    Another suggestion that is probably too much work to implement, is that (powerful) enemies/bosses adapt and have extra moves/A.I. depending on the units the summoner is bringing (maybe basing it on cost used?). That way, there is little to no chance of summoners just cheesing through everything just because they've summoned/obtained the powerful units.
    For example, if using the unit with the buff wipe UBB (and using that UBB) the unit/party can be penalized for it or just regain the buffs every 3 turns (not only talking about EU-exclusive content here, but all current/future content that is coming from BFJP).

    You have to adjust the content somehow anyway if you're not gonna nerf the powerful units. You want the game to stay challenging for us summoners so that we can keep playing because it is interesting and create a long life expectancy for this game, even though there may be summoners that say "no don't nerf anything we want to keep playing like we are now etc. etc.". Those will be the very same people that will eventually say "this game has been too boring for so long, I can cheese everything with these units, I'm moving to another game" sadly.

    It's extremely hard to completely avoid people cheesing any content, we have it in Global too. Nevertheless, I wish you and your team good luck in making the best of BFEU.
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