Feedback Thread | Unit Cost Rebalancing #1

Discussion in 'Future Content' started by gumi Elie, Mar 7, 2016.

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  1. gumi Elie

    gumi Elie English Community Manager Staff Member

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    Welcome to this official Feedback thread for Unit Cost Rebalancing!​

    What is this about?
    In threads like this one, we encourage you to discuss Cost changes for 10 Units we have picked. These changes might already be live in the game, or might be current plans for a future update.​

    How can I help?
    Our team will be looking at feedback concerning the impact these changes have, what should be raised or lowered, if it all seems logical within the game's meta, etc... If you are knowledgeable about specific characters mentioned below, please tell us if you agree with our approach or if it should be modified and why.​

    Note: We kindly ask you to stay on topic. This thread is not about whether Cost changes are necessary or not. You can read more about why Rebalancing is happening here: LINK

    • Unit Cost Rebalancing #1 •

    For existing Units - The following Units have already been updated according to these plans:

    7-Star Evolutions

    Arthur | Cost 48 (+6, up from 42)
    Magena | Cost 48 (+6, up from 42)
    Elimo | Cost 46 (+6, up from 40)
    Merlin | Cost 45 (+3, up from 42)
    Dion | Cost 40 (Remains the same)
    Rinon | Cost 40 (Remains the same)
    Kanon | Cost 38 (-2, down from 40)
    Balgran | Cost 36 (-4, down from 40)
    Tora | Cost 36 (-4, down from 40)
    6-Star Evolutions
    Lucy | Cost 30 (+3, up from 27)​

    Feel free to openly discuss our changes (or lack thereof) for any of these 10 Units.
    Thank you for participating in our Rebalancing discussions!
    - The Brave Frontier RPG Team​
  2. Broekie-Chan

    Broekie-Chan [10] Legend

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    PERSONAL OPINION! WARNING!
    If you are going to rebalance athur or magena is status it would be better if you reduced the cost then or you will get a crappy reis unit with a cost of a dream evolution. Same count for magena

    Second elimo his cost need to be lower because she got only so OP because of the lack of releasing content on time, that creates a big gap between difficulity. This can be solved by releasing content on the right time. This counts for any other unit that is not an eu exclusive.

    And you should increase the cost by 10 - 20
    because we already reached 42 cost and even dream evo.

  3. rokki82

    rokki82 [10] Legend

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    I'd rather welcome a nerf on the last balanced units ->
    Arthur decrease to 46 (48 was a bit too high imho), actually i don't see any reason to up the cost by 6 just because of his exclusive double sbb skill. besides that he is quite powerful, but not enough to make him the over-the-top unit that outclasses every other crit buffer in the game.
    Merlin, Elimo decrease to 44 (46 for Elimo just because she is our only 7(*) mitigator so far was a bit harsh)
    Magena decrease to 45-46 (due to her multifarious skills she became really versatile, maybe even so much that her cost increase might have been justified. but like arthur, she doesn't outshine future unit batches that are still incoming).
    Imho you went a bit overboard with the first rebalance.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2016
  4. Copper

    Copper [8] Elite

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    The only matter I want to bring up is the Elimo nerf. I completely understand the reason behind the change - the mitigation stacking strategy is actually a toxic cheese some players use to go through content too easily than intended, so raising the cost of the bulkier units (Magena, Elimo, Edea) should discourage that approach without actually touching its efficiency. Still I think giving a whopping +6 in cost to Elimo is a bit overdoing it, considering that Edea just had her cost raised by just 1. I don't think you should revert completely the nerf on Elimo, but how about lowering her cost to 44-45? This way she would be still hard to pair with Magena, but not cost-inefficient to the point that people just turn away from her.

    I actually don't have a 7* Elimo , but what I'm trying to point out is that I feel discouraged to evolve her AT ALL since the nerf, even if I don't have the intention to put her in the same squad as Magena.

    If possible, I'd like to have a response in which i can read the exact points behind that huuuuuge nerf to our beloved nerdy grill. Maybe I'm missing something that fully legitimates the nerf?
    kami108 likes this.
  5. Arioch

    Arioch [10] Legend

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    Arthur and Magena are so broken that a cost of 50 would also be low. But 48 is a good first approach.
    With that said we must have in mind the upcoming change in the mitigation formula. This will be a hard strike to Magena. After this change she could go back to 42 or 44.
  6. rokki82

    rokki82 [10] Legend

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    nvm the crit resistant content we'll get in the near future - arthur will surely be pleased with 48+ cost :D
    after rethinking merlins' skill set he should actually be placed above arthur. he will be way more relevant in the next months with his bc buffs + heal + status cleaning
  7. wmute_konrad

    wmute_konrad [8] Elite

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    I think getting feedback from the community BEFORE making changes is probably a better way. Still, better late than never! :)

    Sorry to be a little OT, but first I want to propose a rather radical idea. I want to suggest that unit costs be balanced not by increasing them, but by REDUCING them. Please hear me out. In my proposed system, the top units (Arthur and Magena) will stay at 42 cost, while everyone else will have their costs reduced accordingly. For example, Elimo stays at 40, Merlin drops to 39, the others drop to 30s or lower. Why do this instead of the original proposal?

    1. This is in effect a buff for less popular units instead of a nerf on the top ones. In terms of gameplay it has nearly the same effect, but psychologically it makes a big difference. The playerbase would feel that they are gaining something instead of being ripped off.
    2. The main difference is that players can use high cost teams at a lower summoner level than before. I submit that a high summoner level is not all that meaningful, as it just means more grinding of uninteresting levels. Indeed, other servers have granted more unit cost rather than taking it away from players. If Gumi wants to encouraged high summoner levels, they can do so in other ways, for example by giving specific rewards at for example, level 100, 150, and so on.
    3. The most important gameplay change (cost restricted dungeons) can still be implemented with this system. The only difference is that the allowed cost will now be set lower.

    For the 10 units reviewed in this thread, here are my thoughts on each:
    Arthur - leapfrogs poor Colt and jumps straight to Griff/Avant territory. Plus Nemethgear's iSBB and his own dual casting buff. Yeah, make him the highest cost unit. (42)
    Magena - Magena basically does everything except attack, so I think her high unit cost is very much justified. It's true that the coming elemental mitigation nerf will reduce her effectiveness somewhat, but it won't affect all the other things she does very well. In some ways she's even more broken than Arthur. (42)
    Elimo - Elimo is a fantastic unit, and I fully support setting her cost as one of the highest ones in EU. I would set a relatively high cost for the mitigation alone, but Elimo also excels as a healer, status cleanser, and DEF buffer. (40)
    Merlin - thoroughly dominates the likes of Diana, Kikuri, and Medina. Also has the +1 hit ES that's already great now in Arena and great everywhere in future meta. Deserves a high cost for sure. (40)
    Dion - basically a slightly better Lava. Has an ok niche, I'm not sure how to cost it. (34)
    Rinon - interesting mix of skills now, but future units (6* Grah and 7* Melchio) will overshadow her greatly. (34)
    Kanon - still very good at 2 things (DEF buffer and status cleansing), but dominated by Elimo. Definitely should cost lower than Elimo, but I don't think he should be lower than other 7*. (34)
    Balgran - a DEF buffer that stacks with other DEF buffers, and adds ailments. Like Rinon, there will be huge overlap with Melchio in the future. Not really seeing why he should have less cost than his batchmates though. (34)
    Tora - ailment specialist. Not really sure how to cost her - she's the best at her niche, but it's a very small niche. (34)
    Lucy - she's nice, but not all that OP I think. Unit cost on par with Zelnite seems about right. (27)
  8. Sucker

    Sucker [11] Grandmaster

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    After playing Arthur and Magena and their effect on trials, they should have gone to 50 or 52 Cost for being so overpowered. The Arthur / Magena leader / friend tandem is breaking any content at the moment except for Rhein's UC level 2.

    Elimo could have been set to 44 or 45 though, since she drags down your team by not contributing to BC generation at all.

    Merlin should be on 50 Cost as well for being such an overpowered BC generating machine, just like many people have pointed out already. He literally makes BC restriction a complete joke.

    The other Cost adjustments in this batch are fine.
  9. Leonhart

    Leonhart [9] Master

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    Elimo is fine, nor Global or JP changed her cost. Judging by this moves, next good mitigators in future like Dolk, for example, is 60 cost then, compared to how much they are better than Elimo.

    Also, those changes are pretty much negligible for high level players, hovewer, they are a great tool to piss off a lower lever playerbase, who can barely hit the Cost cap.(especially when they want to access Trials with those units)

    Basically, this decision(Cost increase) is not something really important or gamebreaking, it's just "Grind your Fourfold Pillars for another 2-4 weeks to access a new cost", which is annoying, but that's all.

    Balancing exclusives is fine, they are not meant to be in the original game.

    p.s. in terms of gamebreaking moments Merlin(Infinity SBB for all team from 1 normal attack - easy) -> Arthur (damage/buffs) -> Magena with current barrier -> actually, no one.
    Viviane or Perceval have limited utility use(but still strong, overall). If you can't one-two-threeshot boss, better use Feeva or higher(future) tier units, than Viviane. If you doesn't need to dispel enemy buffs, better use units with 130-140% buffs, than Perceval(if you got a better buffs in party, Percevals 100% buffs is more of a hindrance, than help, especially that 100% DEF buff).
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2016
  10. Sir Knight

    Sir Knight [6] Champion

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    I think, you should decrease Zodiaks cost.
    They are not so OP as Magena.
  11. Akis

    Akis [8] Elite

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    the cost for zodiacs is too damn high!!
  12. Sucker

    Sucker [11] Grandmaster

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    It is over9000!!!
  13. TickTock

    TickTock [6] Champion

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    Didn't they say that they aren't going to be eincreasing any more unit costs, if anytihng fugture rebalances would be simply lowering costs. so Dolk will most likely stay the same. They are leaving theones they changed where they are - at least for te time being, chance they could lower them back to normal but for now we will be stuck with high cost Elimo.

    As for the Zodiac cost, they are currently around GL/JP Omni Evolution cost, but are only 7* i am a little afraid of what potentil OE for them ight cost, after all i've never seen a unit who's cost stayed the same upon evolution but i guess there is always a first time for everything.
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